Forums - Need team to counter Cable/Sentinel/Blackheart Show all 23 posts from this thread on one page Forums (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/index.php) - Strategy & Tactics (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=10) -- Need team to counter Cable/Sentinel/Blackheart (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=29998) Posted by ATM SPIDERTAO on 07:12:2001 08:31 AM: Need team to counter Cable/Sentinel/Blackheart hey people, i play in vancouver, canada and for like a long time, i'm known as the best here but recently my friend has this stupid team of cable/sentinel/blackheart and has been catching up to me on the winning records... this is really pissing me off and i would like to know if there's a team or a strategy to counter this. i have no solid team, what i used before was cable/sentinel/cammy but he's gotten too used to it and we often trade matches to his benifit. so i just usually just randomly select whoever i can to try to match him i know you all are gonna say rush him down, but sentinel has a safe switch and then he has cable AA which is something so yeah, help me out if you can. the only person i don't know how to play really well is DOOM, but he's not gonna do too well against that team Posted by Flyasianboy on 07:12:2001 08:48 AM: Try the sentinel spiral trap...... If you do this well enough you are able to prevent him from even summoning out his assist(because he will be continuosly be in block). And use cable his and AHVB against his blackheart/sentinel. Doom/Strider trap might work if you know how to use Strider's teleport well Posted by Ouroborus on 07:12:2001 09:07 AM: Use the Strider/Doom trap..... Posted by Spider_Sting on 07:12:2001 09:27 AM: quote: Originally posted by Ouroborus Use the Strider/Doom trap..... Not everyone is you !! and he can't use doom that well remember? Yea tao use the spiral/sent trap it worked wonders on my magnus remember? I said if u use wos or rwos i would rip ur dick off and i never did. Alex is getting better but i honestly think team tao can kick his ass... Tao just have some confidence, other wise use team kyle... LOL or use team duc i almost beat alex using team duc Posted by Sentinels Force on 07:12:2001 12:55 PM: one team u can use is sentinel blackheart doom sentinel blackheart cyclops or sentinel blackheart commando it all depends because if cable is on point u can just bum rush that team and it has no good anti air to stop u but if cable is not on point just play the distance game with one of the teams above Posted by ATM SPIDERTAO on 07:12:2001 08:07 PM: ok the thing with using sentiel on point vs that team is that he will just throw out a AHVB and force me to block that then he will high jump or jump with FP and call out BH or he will high just and call out sentinel it stops me from comming inside completely. and when rushing him down, sentinel assist stops rushdown pretty well from the air. and he doesn't stay on the ground. FP with gernade with an assist the whole match. if i call an assist, most of the time, his blackheart can knock it out before i have a chance. and cammy assist is the only AA i use properly, i can't use cammando. cammy might hit a guy but if its sentinel, she takes the hit of 3 drones etc. the team i used to beat him in the last tourney was magneto/storm/cable but they're really close matches Posted by Spider_Sting on 07:12:2001 08:10 PM: Yea like the Mag/BH Rushdown turtle war. OMG I hope draizen uploads that!! Posted by StiltMan on 07:13:2001 12:08 AM: Tao - The guy who suggested Spiral/Sentinel had it, although he might not have made his meaning clear. A properly executed Spiral/Sentinel trap basically works like this: 1. By whatever means, get them to block Sentinel's drones, and call Spiral's knives as the first drones are passing her on their way to Cable. If that means you make them block a few more knives to set it up, neat, but it doesn't really matter... standing fierce, circle of knives, whatever it takes... just get them to block Sentinel's drones and call knives in the process. 2. Dash up and do a standing fierce with Spiral. Do not start to throw knives yet. 3. Towards the end of the standing fierce, when you're about to lose physical contact with the opponent, start throwing knives and calling Sentinel again. 4. When Sentinel's drones pass you, call the knives again. 5. Dash in after the drones and repeat from step 2. If the opposing team is Cable/Sentinel/BH, and he's starting Cable, there is basically nothing Cable can do to stop this trap from Spiral. Once you make him block that first set of drones, he's not going to move again until you screw up. While you're doing all of this, you're going to build quite a pile of meter for Cable, Sentinel, or whoever else you have on the team. Pick out your favorite character for shutting down Sentinel and BH to burn it off and you're set. You might remember that I did much this same tactic to you when we met in that Seattle tournament before I had that disastrous round with BH/Cable/Cyclops. It works very well against teams with only one AAA, when the AAA char is on point. This is one reason why if you get a Spiral/Cable/helper-other-than-AAA team against another Spiral/Sentinel team, why the Cable team pretty much has to win while their Spiral is on point, because if they get caught with Cable against the other Spiral and that third helper isn't an AAA, they're screwed. Posted by Ouroborus on 07:13:2001 03:42 AM: quote: Originally posted by Spider_Sting Not everyone is you !! and he can't use doom that well remember? Yea tao use the spiral/sent trap it worked wonders on my magnus remember? I said if u use wos or rwos i would rip ur dick off and i never did. Alex is getting better but i honestly think team tao can kick his ass... Tao just have some confidence, other wise use team kyle... LOL or use team duc i almost beat alex using team duc Strider/Doom ownz you Posted by Spider_Sting on 07:13:2001 04:53 AM: quote: Originally posted by ATM SPIDERTAO he will just throw out a AHVB and force me to block that Umm why don't u call it the hop tao, are u ashamed? LOL AHVBAHVBAHVBAHVB AH-VB quote: Strider/Doom ownz you Yea well ken owns strider/doom and storm owns ken and strider doom owns storm. its a vicious cycle. Posted by Ouroborus on 07:13:2001 05:00 AM: quote: Originally posted by Spider_Sting Umm why don't u call it the hop tao, are u ashamed? LOL AHVBAHVBAHVBAHVB AH-VB Yea well ken owns strider/doom and storm owns ken and strider doom owns storm. its a vicious cycle. I'll just snap his ass in and rape Ken. Posted by sabretooth on 07:13:2001 05:07 AM: quote: Originally posted by StiltMan Tao - The guy who suggested Spiral/Sentinel had it, although he might not have made his meaning clear. A properly executed Spiral/Sentinel trap basically works like this: 1. By whatever means, get them to block Sentinel's drones, and call Spiral's knives as the first drones are passing her on their way to Cable. If that means you make them block a few more knives to set it up, neat, but it doesn't really matter... standing fierce, circle of knives, whatever it takes... just get them to block Sentinel's drones and call knives in the process. 2. Dash up and do a standing fierce with Spiral. Do not start to throw knives yet. 3. Towards the end of the standing fierce, when you're about to lose physical contact with the opponent, start throwing knives and calling Sentinel again. 4. When Sentinel's drones pass you, call the knives again. 5. Dash in after the drones and repeat from step 2. If the opposing team is Cable/Sentinel/BH, and he's starting Cable, there is basically nothing Cable can do to stop this trap from Spiral. Once you make him block that first set of drones, he's not going to move again until you screw up. While you're doing all of this, you're going to build quite a pile of meter for Cable, Sentinel, or whoever else you have on the team. Pick out your favorite character for shutting down Sentinel and BH to burn it off and you're set. You might remember that I did much this same tactic to you when we met in that Seattle tournament before I had that disastrous round with BH/Cable/Cyclops. It works very well against teams with only one AAA, when the AAA char is on point. This is one reason why if you get a Spiral/Cable/helper-other-than-AAA team against another Spiral/Sentinel team, why the Cable team pretty much has to win while their Spiral is on point, because if they get caught with Cable against the other Spiral and that third helper isn't an AAA, they're screwed. Can't pushblock or VCs stop it? Posted by GeekBoy on 07:13:2001 06:02 AM: quote: Originally posted by sabretooth Can't pushblock or VCs stop it? Pushblocking only works in the corner, a good Spiral/Sentinel trap will not allow pushblocking, an alpha counter would work, just have to make sure not to do it when she's throwing the swords or when you're getting hit by the drones unless you've got an invincible AAA. Posted by Infiniti on 07:13:2001 07:35 AM: cable and sentinel own this team, put on the pressure, don't let him do the trap. Posted by ATM SPIDERTAO on 07:13:2001 09:25 AM: stilt man, the thing is, the team he uses, is VERY hard to get the trap on. and like i said, its a trap. i'll have to do the trap for a LONG LONG time for it to be effective... and pushblocking is semi effective. its really really hard to do the perfect trap. this is probably the best method though, and i thank you. but i'm not really patient and i won't really switch in to cable. and the reason why you did so good against me with that team is, i'm the best at where i am. i play only scrubs and some good cable players. i had no expirence vs that team cuz i'm the only guy here that can use spiral. alex has been playing spiral since i started doing the wall of swords. i've already beaten him with this team and this team is the first one of mine he's adapted to. i actually forgot to mention this so its my big bad haha. umm... but yeah, he usually gets like a super or 2 in on spiral + helper so rarely the matches go to him. hey stilt, have you gotten alot better since then though? cuz i've been sucking bigtime hahaha... Posted by Spider_Sting on 07:13:2001 09:36 AM: don't believe him! he's nowhere near sucking! Posted by StiltMan on 07:13:2001 05:46 PM: quote: Originally posted by sabretooth Can't pushblock or VCs stop it? You can't pushblock Spiral's standing fierce, and pushblocking the knives and the drones does you no good at all. Spiral can just adjust the timing to call the knives earlier in the cycle -- she's timing the knives call for when the drones come by her, regardless of whether she actually finishes throwing all the knives from the previous set. Variable counters... well, who's Cable going to VC out to? Sentinel and BH are only going to get stuffed. Having Cable in back makes it a little harder to keep the trap going, but the reason it would work with Cable on point on the other side is because he doesn't have any assists that will stop Spiral from doing this to him all day once she's got him locked up the first time. That goes just as much for VCs as it does for calling them as assists. The only difference that will make is to force Spiral to adjust her timing so that she's no longer hitting you by the time she calls Sentinel, since you can only use an assist in a combo once. quote: Originally posted by ATM SPIDERTAO stilt man, the thing is, the team he uses, is VERY hard to get the trap on. and like i said, its a trap. i'll have to do the trap for a LONG LONG time for it to be effective... and pushblocking is semi effective. its really really hard to do the perfect trap. this is probably the best method though, and i thank you. How long will you really have to do it? What's he going to have that's going to outchip Spiral/Sentinel anyway? A good Spiral's going to take Cable to the cleaners... she's basically AHVB-proof as long as your sticks don't suck, so as long as you're smart about when you're calling the knives you shouldn't lose this fight in general. quote: and the reason why you did so good against me with that team is, i'm the best at where i am. i play only scrubs and some good cable players. i had no expirence vs that team cuz i'm the only guy here that can use spiral. Don't look now, but that's basically exactly why I not only chose Spiral/Cable/Sentinel against you, but I also used the round before I knew I'd probably have to play you to warm up with Spiral in what I knew in advance was likely to be a throwaway free win. quote: hey stilt, have you gotten alot better since then though? cuz i've been sucking bigtime hahaha... Heh... well, my Spiral is certainly getting a lot better, as has my Sentinel and Blackheart. I've stopped using Cable, though... my Cable is good enough that I can beat the scrubs with him, but I'm not likely to win too many serious matches with him, so I haven't been using him to speak of. I didn't use him at all either in the Springfield or Portland tournaments in the last few weeks, and I placed 1st and 2nd in them, respectively, so it's probably fair to say that I didn't lose much by getting rid of him. Posted by ATM SPIDERTAO on 07:13:2001 08:19 PM: quote: Originally posted by StiltMan You can't pushblock Spiral's standing fierce, and pushblocking the knives and the drones does you no good at all. Spiral can just adjust the timing to call the knives earlier in the cycle -- she's timing the knives call for when the drones come by her, regardless of whether she actually finishes throwing all the knives from the previous set. Variable counters... well, who's Cable going to VC out to? Sentinel and BH are only going to get stuffed. Having Cable in back makes it a little harder to keep the trap going, but the reason it would work with Cable on point on the other side is because he doesn't have any assists that will stop Spiral from doing this to him all day once she's got him locked up the first time. That goes just as much for VCs as it does for calling them as assists. The only difference that will make is to force Spiral to adjust her timing so that she's no longer hitting you by the time she calls Sentinel, since you can only use an assist in a combo once. How long will you really have to do it? What's he going to have that's going to outchip Spiral/Sentinel anyway? A good Spiral's going to take Cable to the cleaners... she's basically AHVB-proof as long as your sticks don't suck, so as long as you're smart about when you're calling the knives you shouldn't lose this fight in general. Don't look now, but that's basically exactly why I not only chose Spiral/Cable/Sentinel against you, but I also used the round before I knew I'd probably have to play you to warm up with Spiral in what I knew in advance was likely to be a throwaway free win. Heh... well, my Spiral is certainly getting a lot better, as has my Sentinel and Blackheart. I've stopped using Cable, though... my Cable is good enough that I can beat the scrubs with him, but I'm not likely to win too many serious matches with him, so I haven't been using him to speak of. I didn't use him at all either in the Springfield or Portland tournaments in the last few weeks, and I placed 1st and 2nd in them, respectively, so it's probably fair to say that I didn't lose much by getting rid of him. yeah thats the thing he won't use cable against my spiral. sentinel has a safe switch and vs spiral its almost safe switches all around. what he does with sentinel is do crouching FP and BH assist at the same time. unless i hit him with what? 3 knives i think? the super armour will protect him. and the FP knocks out a bunch too. and one FP does a shitload of damage too. BUT i guess i will give this a try too though, since everyone's suggesting it.. but i gotta wait, cuz he's in maiami right now so i can't even play him if i wanna Posted by Goku on 07:13:2001 08:29 PM: If cable is on point, and his only AAA is slowass BH, Bum rush his ass. Posted by StiltMan on 07:13:2001 08:59 PM: quote: Originally posted by ATM SPIDERTAO yeah thats the thing he won't use cable against my spiral. sentinel has a safe switch and vs spiral its almost safe switches all around. What, he DHCs into HSF first chance he gets? Oh well... quote: what he does with sentinel is do crouching FP and BH assist at the same time. unless i hit him with what? 3 knives i think? the super armour will protect him. and the FP knocks out a bunch too. and one FP does a shitload of damage too. Block it. Then take a normal jump and throw some knives and your own Sentinel at him after BH drops out. Or if you're having trouble finding the holes, teleport over his head and throw the circle. Or get in his face and do the fierce/Sentinel/knives lockdown (be sparing with this one... if he has an AAA even the smallest hole you leave will stop this). Once Spiral gets going on Sentinel, he has a hard time stopping her unless she screws up, and the only angle he can come at her with that will really keep her from getting going is flying over her head. Your opponent doesn't seem to be doing this... he's staying on the ground and turtling, and that's exactly what Sentinel doesn't want to do on a good Spiral, because he can't cover her as constantly as he can in the air. Spiral takes a lot of patience, but the matchup against Sentinel isn't necessarily his, especially if he stays to the ground. Posted by flesh~n~bone on 07:14:2001 01:53 AM: Re: Need team to counter Cable/Sentinel/Blackheart quote: Originally posted by ATM SPIDERTAO hey people, i play in vancouver, canada and for like a long time, i'm known as the best here but recently my friend has this stupid team of cable/sentinel/blackheart and has been catching up to me on the winning records... this is really pissing me off and i would like to know if there's a team or a strategy to counter this. i have no solid team, what i used before was cable/sentinel/cammy but he's gotten too used to it and we often trade matches to his benifit. so i just usually just randomly select whoever i can to try to match him i know you all are gonna say rush him down, but sentinel has a safe switch and then he has cable AA which is something so yeah, help me out if you can. the only person i don't know how to play really well is DOOM, but he's not gonna do too well against that team to counter cable/sentinel/blackheart....use cable/sentinal/blackheart..!! Posted by sabretooth on 07:14:2001 05:30 AM: Stilt, I think Cable can VC to Sent and immediately cancels it into HSF. Am I right? If not, do you think the correct trap would be a spiral/sabrettoth kind of thing and simply kills Cable? If I have a Cable AAA(Cyc or Commando) what's the right timing to call it? Thanks Posted by ATM SPIDERTAO on 07:14:2001 07:29 AM: ok yeah, i can see where you're going with this stilt i was playing around with the spiral sentinel trap and you gotta have an AA to stand up against it right? well there's a thing, if i teleport, its kinda easy to foretell and a jumping fierce kick or punch does pretty bad damage. umm yeah, but would the team be as effective if my friend were to switch like sentinel for cammando? so far, my most luck VS that team is magneto/storm/cable All times are GMT. The time now is 09:08 PM. Show all 23 posts from this thread on one page Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.2.4 Copyright © Jelsoft Enterprises Limited 2000, 2001.